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Hi ztron, don’t worry, it’s not a big problem. I’ll post my advice on the Tube 1 instructions page. Cheers
Yeah, that’s something I’ve thought about, but once there’s TPU on both sides of the standard tube fabric then it’s only slightly lighter than the standard 450 GSM floor fabric – the difference isn’t big enough to make it worthwhile on a floor that’s about one square meter (it might save 50 or 100 grams compared to using the standard weight floor fabric). It might work to use thinner TPU coatings, but until I hear about people actually puncturing the ultralight floors (as opposed to being worried about it happening) then it’s probably not going to be a priority.
Also keep in mind that the floor inside the cockpit isn’t required to keep the packraft afloat. I’m currently developing a self-bailer and the platform is a Skeena with a bunch of holes cut in the floor. When I paddle it, the water only comes up in the cockpit a couple of inches and it still performs fine – the tubes provide way more than enough flotation.
One possible option for the Ultralight would be to reinforce the floor fabric where it’s exposed inside the tubes by heat sealing a layer of tube fabric over it… but yeah, I haven’t heard of anyone puncturing an Ultralight yet, other than me when I was doing something stupid (to see what would happen, I let myself get pushed over a small log jam in a shallow stream and the current basically impaled me on sharp sticks – easily avoidable).
It sounds like an Ultralight is what you want… I paddle class 1+ in the Ultralight and sometimes carry my wife with me on lakes. If you dig through my old YouTube videos you can see me doing these things in earlier versions of what became the Ultralight. Just four days ago a customer who built an Ultralight emailed:
“By the way last weekend I took it through a very dicey little river between two lakes where it rubbed against a bunch of sticks on both sides from a destroyed beaver dam and it held up great. Impressive.” He also sent pictures of himself paddling through ice in the arctic.
If you’re not convinced, I recommend ordering a fabric sample pack so you can test the fabrics yourself.
Regarding the fabric weights, you’re talking about substituting fabrics with TPU on one side in place of fabrics that have TPU on both sides, which could be done but it would leave exposed fabric on the bottom of the packraft, which would soak up water and then be heavier than the double coated fabric and it would be less resistant to abrasion.
I’ve looked at the numbers before and unfortunately it doesn’t really make sense.
Having an Ultralight packraft with a wraparound floor wouldn’t make it stronger because the ultralight floor fabric is the same strength as the ultralight tube fabric.
Compared to a standard weight Telkwa, substituting ultralight tube fabric in a Telkwa only reduces its weight by about 400 grams (less than a pound) but it makes it much weaker (too weak for whitewater paddling) and it’s still heavier than a Skeena (which is whitewater capable).
I thought about developing a floor fabric that’s somewhere in between the ultralight and standard weights, and I can’t recall the numbers at the moment, but the weight savings were only marginal compared to the standard weight floor fabric – not enough to justify the significantly reduced strength.
I haven’t tried it, so it would be a bit of an experiment, but I think that would be okay. I would make the parts that attach to the packraft’s tubes out of the standard weight fabric… there should be enough of that in the kit, but add a note to your order reminding me about this and I’ll make sure to add some extra. Cheers!
If you pull the tube 2 fabric forward and align the edge with the 5 cm line beside the slit (letting the tube fabric overhang the slit) then it looks like it will lie flat. You don’t have to force the existing corner to sit on the slit – you can trim the forward edge of tube 2 later so it lines up with the slit.
Does that help? I’m not 100% sure I understand the issue.
Hi Christian, I sympathize with that fear! It took me some time before I felt comfortable paddling in the Ultralight packrafts. The newer Ultralight fabric is very similar to the older fabric – to achieve the packraft’s very light weight we must use a very lightweight fabric or reduce the size and capabilities of the boat.
As a confidence building exercise, it might be a good idea to use some of your scrap ultralight fabric and a valve to make a small inflatable pillow (or even just use a piece of scrap fabric held in your hand) and then take it to the shore and scrape it over sticks and stones in the water to see how durable it is. It is not indestructible, but you may find that it is more durable than you expect.
It’s great to know that if I lose my primary inflation method then I can use a pen or a bit of tubing to inflate my packraft relatively quickly to get home!
I don’t think my previous response got posted… I wrote something like:
Great work! Thanks for posting the photos and your thoughts.
I’d be really interested in reading more about your experience with the Ulralight. I haven’t received much feedback about that model, and if I can post it as a Customer Build Report (under the Gallery menu) then I think it could help potential builders decide if an Ultralight is right for them. Just send me an email if that’s something you’d like to do.
And that’s a great photo! Do you mind if I use it elsewhere on the site and/or on social media?
Please keep us posted about the skeg – I’m quite interested in that too!
That is fascinating! I have seen this phenomenon used before, but I never considered this size/application. Very cool! I wonder if aiming a drinking straw at the valve opening and blowing through it would also work.
I’m not sure what kind of scenarios you’re envisioning, so I’ll start with a caution for anyone who reads this: I strongly advise against paddling any packraft (or any other boat) in woody rivers, not because sticks might puncture them but because of the risk of drowning while being pinned underwater by a sweeper or strainer. If a person can see wood but can’t avoid hitting it then there’s either too much wood or the river is too challenging for their paddling skill level – either way, they shouldn’t be there. Learn how to recognize danger, scout ahead, and portage around anything that looks even remotely hazardous.
With that out of the way… I took the Skeena on that trip because I paddled in rivers that I didn’t have any information about so I didn’t know what to expect, and I was also in the ocean where the rocky shores are covered in sharp barnacles, so the Skeena with an ultralight seat was a good compromise between durability and light weight. In hindsight, I think it was the right choice.
The only puncture I’ve ever had in a packraft was in an Ultralight prototype. I was paddling in a small creek that was really too shallow to paddle down (like ankle deep) and I tried to slide over a small log that had fallen across the stream. When you’re moving, the packraft tends to just slide past sticks, but if you get hung up on something, as I did, then the moving water really starts to push, and if there’s something like a broken branch poking into the fabric then there’s not much you can do at that point. The result was a 5 cm (2″) tear in the fabric that was easy to repair with tape in the field, and then when I got home I ironed a scrap of fabric over it and it was as good as new.
The Ultralight isn’t a big seller, so I’m not sure if anyone else with experience will see this anytime soon. If you’re considering an Ultralight, I highly recommend ordering a fabric sample pack so you can feel the fabrics yourself and poke them with various things to see how they hold up.
Here are my recommendations: https://www.diypackraft.com/faq/what-size-work-surface-do-i-need-to-assemble-my-diy-packraft-kit/
Cheers!
Hi Christian, here’s a video showing how I modified my paddle (it sounds like Uncle Fred did something similar): https://www.diypackraft.com/2019/09/19/convert-a-kayak-paddle-to-a-packraft-paddle/
Also, here’s a post about how another person made his own paddle from carbon fiber tubes and sheets, in case you want to try making one from scratch: https://www.diypackraft.com/2017/03/27/diy-5-piece-carbon-paddle/
Hi Fred, this is great – thanks for posting! There’s lots to learn from here and I’d like to move it to a dedicated “build report” page so more people will see it. If you’re up for it, I might ask you for some more pictures to illustrate the text.
Cheers!
Hi Damo, the only suppliers I’m aware of are ExtrimTextil in Germany, Seattle Fabrics in the US, and Aliexpress in China. I didn’t like the fabrics from Seattle Fabrics (melting point of fabric too similar to melting point of coating), and the reviews of the fabrics on Aliexpress are pretty bad (the coatings easily delaminate). In your case the shipping costs from ExtrimTextil might not be worse than from North America, so it might be worth a try. I don’t know if that qualifies as “decently priced” though.
I’m working on an inflatable floor/seat design for a self-bailing option if that’s what you’re planning to make. Depending on how the next few months go I might have to start selling fabric in order to stay afloat.
